Dave Davies Message Board

Hi John,

I would LOVE to hear Dave's view on this also.   I hope Dave doesn't mind me saying this, but from I have gathered, I think he sees Jesus as a extremely powerful being( light being/Master) He once told me that "Jesus changed the grid"   I'm not sure what exactly he meant by that, but I have somewhat of an idea, but would want him to expound more on that for you.  Back when he stated this,  I asked him to explain more, and he said one day he would explian more in his book.  But maybe he will drop by here and tell us a bit more.


Teri

It would be lovely to hear Dave's viewpoint. I do think that we would all agree that he was such an immensely powerful divine Avatar sent to aid and nuture humanity's spiritual developement. His teaching via his physical incarnation of tremendously powerful and unconditional divine love underpins everything really, the message encapsulated alongside the focus of other so many other great teachers ie. Gautama's teaching of calm discrimination and wisdom leading to the truth realisation.

Last edited by Robert (2010-02-18 18:20:17)

Absolutely. I completely aggree with you Terisong. His original teachings showed that he was a supreme Adept/Yogi/Magus/Healer within both his own cultural spiritual heritage, and that of the East/Egypt ect. It's the true Perrenial Philosophy that is found in all the knowledge streams from the Yogis to the Druids. In no way would I wish to offend a practising Christian ( respecting all paths as Ramakrishna  advised , as they all lead to the One) . His  revolutionary radical egalatarian teachings were way too radical for 'Society' then, and even more so so today. They were so tragically and deliberately distorted for socio- economical/political control/ manipulation that I think that HE would take a very dim view indeed, to say the least!
Also, the corrolations with the Crucifixion and the pagan dying and resurrected God/King are striking - what is the message here??!
Interestingly, The Koran states quite affirmativeley that he did not die, and he has a venerated tomb in India . Any research into his lost years re. the East and the theory that he lived and undertook spiritual training there and also continued to teach there after surviving the Crucifixion is utterly fascinating and mind expanding. I believe the more we try to imagine this wonderful teacher beyond the given rhetoric and broaden our perception of his life in reality re. human/divine status, the more truly magnificent and inspiring he becomes, and the closer we may come to the genuine HIM.

Om Shanti.

Last edited by Robert (2010-02-20 16:52:23)

Terisong wrote:

I still have a difficult time with a God that would have anyone die for their sins, or to have someone to die in our place when we already die because we are  in a sinful or unperfect state.  So I could never understand Jesus dying, and cannot see why the Creator of the Universe would ask him to do so. Something seems amiss here.

I think the meaning of "dying for our sins" - is ,  Jesus, the man , came to this plane and sacrificed his life and gave his life to alter the planetary "grid" as Dave mentioned.. which means (to me) that his appearance on this earth erased (transmuted) much of the evil karma (sin) of this planet, this world,  up to that point, and the planet itself was set on a new course, spiritually. Every avatar who came before, and who will come after Jesus, will do the same...they will alter the course, spiritually..to one degree or another. And every highly evolved being that is sent from the Divine World does sacrifice himself/herself when he comes to this world.. .even the ones who are unknown.  We humans may not be able to see this or understand clearly how this happens, but this is the purpose of Avatars... to straighten things out... set things on a correct course, to restore "righteousness" in men, when things are out of whack..

The  culture of the Jewish people  at the time of Jesus' birth was corrupt and lacked spiritual understanding, Jesus came to correct their course.. and to add to the teachings that the Jewish people already had.. Jesus said, that he didn't come to take it away, but to fulfill or complete the teachings. The people were engaging in wrong religious practices with no understanding... they were quite ignorant then, and not very evolved...so they could understand very little of what Jesus taught.. Only a few (his disciples and followers ) could really understand him.. Others thought him blasphemous... and he was killed for those reasons.

I believe that he did die on the cross... this is not a fantasy story made up by men.. We really should take with a grain of salt all those theories that are now out there on the internet , in the movies, on youtube etc.. Many of the people who make up these "tales" are people with atheist agendas, in order to lead mankind astray, so be careful...(look around at how many people actually denounce and hate religion now and want it banned...and actually believe that the beautiful religious teachings are all fantasy and all made up by men. So many unbelievers, and mostly because they've been exposed to films, writings, and youtube rantings of all these dark false prophets. The dark forces have garnered a lot of souls in the last 40 years, mostly young people who do not know any better...do not know truth from fiction)  There are really no stories in history that mimic Jesus' story... The people who are saying that don't know their history.. But if there are similarities between Jesus' life and teachings and other Great Souls & Avatars, its because they all came from the same SOURCE... They all teach TRUTH (the one truth), and they all are God Realized Beings... You could say that they are ALL THE SAME SOUL incarnate..

The accounts in the bible and also in the gnostic writings all confirm the stories of Jesus' life,  that we have always known and believed.... We believe them because there are actual historical accounts ( all the books of the new testament, and also the old). If there are accounts of Jesus appearing after his death  - he appeared in his spiritual body..I believe.. ( there is an account of a bearded light skinned stranger, wearing long robes appearing in the Americas to the native Indians, living with them for a number of years, teaching them, etc..and I very much believe this is, or could be the man we know as Jesus.)

Jesus had powers beyond what ordinary humans can understand. He was merged with and One with God.. so he can create whatever he wants.. And, one of the things that Jesus came to teach (or show ) men,  was that we live on, that we are "Spirit" and that we don't die. Through his resurrection ,  he was proving this to the world and to his followers. He showed that he went to the spirit world and he came back from the spirit world..to show that we live on, that there is no real death. He came back to show his followers that he was not dead and gone, but living on in spirit  - he did that to give them faith and comfort, and to prove his teachings to them. Jesus was trying to show people that all things are possible with God.

So, we can say that Jesus did sacrifice himself (his life) in order to restore humanity ( heal sin) , to help & teach humanity, to change the direction of the course of humanity..

I think that this idea that Jesus "died for our sins"  gets twisted through lack of true spiritual understanding. Some Christians (ordinary men) have interpreted this as 'Oh goodie, we can sin...its ok  cuz Jesus died for us already ..and erased our sin, and now  there is no such thing as sin anymore...as long as we go to church and say we believe in him" etc etc.. lol...or some other such twisted nonsense as this.. That's simply a naive, wrong interpretation.

there is still a thing called sin, humans are still sinning.... and we are all still responsible for our own individual sins.. and we will have to face still, our own individual karma...

Last edited by Barbara in la la (2010-02-22 22:53:51)

"He died for our sins" has never made any sense to me either Teri. Maybe someone has a different explanation of what this means? There are several things that Christians repeat over and over that make little sense to me, and no one has ever been able to explain.

It takes a while to get rid of mental blocks, you know..and old outdated belief systems in our brains. We've got to start somewhere.

Last edited by Barbara in la la (2010-02-21 07:41:08)

I think that were this idea that Jesus "died for our sins"  gets twisted is.. ordinary man has interpreted this as 'Oh goodie, we can sin..its ok now, cuz Jesus died for us already ..and erased our sin, and now  there is no such thing as sin anymore...as long as we go to church and say we believe in him" etc etc.. lol...or some other such twisted nonsense as this.. That's simply a naive, wrong interpretation, imo.

While searching for something tonight, I happen to come across a  "christian" website http://www.hallvworthington.com/grace.html  that spoke about this exact thing.. Apparently some Christians believe that by accepting and believing in Jesus Christ, they automatically are in a state of "grace" ... and with grace, they believe that gives them the authority to do whatever they wish in life and be pardoned..or be "above the law" ... in other words, they can sin and treat others any old way they please... (pretty screwed up interpretation, eh? where's their common sense? )

Not having been raised in the christian church or christian teachings (really), I do not know exactly what is being taught in some churches ... but, having known a few nasty christians myself and having had such bad experiences with them, I really truly wondered what the hell was going on with modern day christianity... what is being taught? so many false theories, it seems...

However, amazingly to me, there are some enlightened christians who have deep knowledge and true understanding... These are the true christians.. the men & women of true faith. Somehow they gained this knowledge through their christian faith despite the dogmas and the incorrect interpretations of Jesus' teachings found in many churches.. There is enough good there, and with true sincere faith and belief, people are led from within.. to the truth.

Last edited by Barbara in la la (2010-02-22 10:02:33)

ColeHarbourDave wrote:

Terisong wrote:

....I think when you use difference words for this phrase"died for you sins,"  for example, " Jesus erased the negative Karma" or Jesus altered the grid," is at least a good place to start. For some reason it speaks to me on a deeper level to hear these words.  Perhaps they acutally carry a different frequency... a higher frequency or vibration.

"Real" Christians aren't going to adopt these terms because they don't embody monotheism in the way that Christians understand God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit to be "One." 
I'm not a theologian, or really a very informed person at all, but I've always interpreted "He died for our sins" to mean that before Christ there was a barrier between humankind and God as the result of earthly desires getting in the way of true enlightenment.  Christ's dying should not be the focus of Christianity, his Resurrection should be the focus, as that is the true meaning of Christianity.  Christ came back from the dead to show Christians that if you follow His teachings, you will be one with God literally.  A lot of Christians focus on the awful death of Christ, but don't see the rebirth as the promise it truly is.  Dying for our sins is just supposed to be a reminder for us to keep up our end of the bargain so to speak. 
I guess we'll never really know the truth until the very last moment, and honestly I hope that's a long way off!

Hi Dave,
I'm curious to know where you learned that, about the barrier between humankind and God? That is interesting and informative to me, because it aligns in a way with other teachings outside of Christianity,  and other religious ideas (other than christian)...but I've never heard that thought from an American Christian.. (but, I'm not a practicing christian, so I really don't know everything that is being taught) ..Christians here (american) are not concerned w/ "enlightenment", but are focused on salvation, or being "saved".  Actually, it is the same thing in the end, but I've never heard of a christian using the term "enlightenment"...except for those who are more 'new age'..

It still does not explain what "died for our sins" really means.. Can you follow through with your thought?

Barbara in la la wrote:

It sounds to me like Canadian Christianity might be more enlightened than the majority of what we have here..

I have to confess(pun intended) that I am a Catholic, I go to Mass most Sundays, I'm even a Communion Minister, but I think the Catholic Church in Canada is trying out some new language to try to increase its flock.  We don't seem to be stick it in your face Christians, those tend to be the Born Agains.  The Catholic church is the only one I'm familiar with, and we seem to be focusing more lately on the life of Jesus and not the death.  I'm using the term "enlightenment" synonymous with being "lit" or filled with light so that when we die, we are in the radiance of God through following what Jesus taught.  I'm trying not to sound preachy but it's hard.   Unfortunatly, I have to go pick my wife up from work, so I'll try to bring this idea to fruition later.

I have to correct that statement - there are catholics who preach.. but I think this tendency has softened in recent decades...The catholics I run into lately just "teach", not preach... and I've learned a lot about Catholicism from listening to them... I know that the Catholic Church teaches the superiority of the Catholic faith and all people born into it.. For some reason this does not offend me.. as I tend to understand this somehow.

Last edited by Barbara in la la (2010-02-22 20:13:42)

yes, I get that. And I agree, his message and teachings is what is important... the real teachings.  Meditating on and understanding his life, his "miracles", his healing powers, his power, etc.. these are the things that give me (us) faith and knowledge about spiritual things ...

Robert wrote:

Also, the corrolations with the Crucifixion and the pagan dying and resurrected God/King are striking - what is the message here??!
Interestingly, The Koran states quite affirmativeley that he did not die, and he has a venerated tomb in India . Any research into his lost years re. the East and the theory that he lived and undertook spiritual training there and also continued to teach there after surviving the Crucifixion is utterly fascinating and mind expanding. I believe the more we try to imagine this wonderful teacher beyond the given rhetoric and broaden our perception of his life in reality re. human/divine status, the more truly magnificent and inspiring he becomes, and the closer we may come to the genuine HIM.

Hi again Robert, this post really fascinates me for some reason.  I've been away from this forum for too long, and just now went back to read  this most interesting thread.  ;-) 

I may be repeating myself, but tt still boggles my mind that for many years I've been so intrigued with this Master but never felt connected through the regualr Christian churches... and I have spent much time in many different Christian religions, since there are so many diversitize, compartmentalized Christain views which make up the many different Christian religions.  But sadly, not one of them gave me the 'feeling' of KNOWING the true Jesus.

The only book that really helped me to see into the soul of Jesus a little better was the book previously mentioned, "Jesus Went to India."  I read that many years ago, and I have it somewhere in this house so I will look for it and read it again soon to refresh my memory.  Maybe you have read this book also. 

I knew that much of our religious practices and traditions today originated with the ancient Pagan beliefs and tradtions, but WOW, I didn't realize that the actual cruxifixtion also reached back THAT far. Amazing!  I really want to look into thsi!

Do you have any other reading suggestions on this subject I call 'the authentic Jesus?'

Robert wrote:

Christianity is deeply rooted in pre- Christian symbolism in so many ways. I believe that Jesus was deeply aware of and skilled in the knowldege systems of the East/Egypt that also influenced Greek mystical thought i.e. Plato, Socrates and Pythagoras etc, which in turn is echoed in Druidic systems. It's all linked. The one supreme wisdom that is the Perennial Philosophy flows in all true Spiritual Systems, adapting itself on the surface level for corresponding cultures and times. As Ramakrishna would always remind people, all Religion is one, like different meals cooked for different palates by The Mother.

I can't suggest a particular book, but Fraser's The Golden Bough is very informative study of pre-Christian mythology and religion in general.

Very interesting indeed Robert! Thanks so much for all this. I've always stood sound in the belief that all religion is one without really knowing exactly why I felt this way.  Then eventually I began searching for answers and  since have learned about how it is all linked in some way. But now reading what you have mentioned above, there is even MORE support  for what I originally believed.

And yes I agree ... More and more I've come to suspect that Jesus was deeply aware and possibly skilled in ALL the ancient East/Egypt knowledge systems. The more I dig into this subject the more it makes perfect sense! 

I think I will check out "The Golden Bough."    Thanks!